www.pegasos.org :: View topic - 3D Support on Pegasos/Linux and Pegasos/MorpOS

www.pegasos.org

Hardware - 3D Support on Pegasos/Linux and Pegasos/MorpOS

Anonymous - Jan 09, 2005 - 20:05
Post subject: 3D Support on Pegasos/Linux and Pegasos/MorpOS

Hello everybody,
I have been thinking for a while about changing from my current x86/Linux platform to PPC/Linux platform, and Pegasos looks very interesting solution because I could take my HD, DVD, ATX Case, Keyboard etc to ppc platform, BUT how about my GeForceFX 5900 class graphic card? Confused

Does it work on Pegasos-2? Does Nvida have drivers for PPC/Linux? And if it dosnt work on Pegasos, which graphic cards do work and have 3D support?

dholm - Jan 09, 2005 - 20:29
Post subject:

You won't get good 3D support on Linux/PPC because there are no commercial drivers. There is a good driver for Radeon cards (up to 9200) but it isn't even close to FireGL or nVidia.
Forget about using an nVidia card because you will not even get accelerated 2D. With a Radeon you get at least fully working 2D acceleration and usable 3D acceleration.

Anonymous - Jan 09, 2005 - 20:45
Post subject:

Thans for quick reply Smile

Now I have difficult decision to do, can I live without fast craphic card Smile

*starts to hit his head to wall*

ironfist - Jan 09, 2005 - 21:10
Post subject:

nVIDIA are the <i>bad guys</i>.
ATi are the <i>good guys</i>.

Smile

gunne - Jan 09, 2005 - 21:29
Post subject:

Hey Guest

May I turn your question 'around in another way' ?

Is this with fastest possible 3D graphics acceleration the only important part you consider ?

Anonymous - Jan 09, 2005 - 22:29
Post subject:

gunne wrote:

Hey Guest

May I turn your question 'around in another way' ?

Is this with fastest possible 3D graphics acceleration the only important part you consider ?

No, no. Like I said, I only need to buy Pegasos mortherboard, RAM, HD, DVD etc I am going to get from my current system. Current processor is 800Mhz Duron, so getting 1 Ghz PPC processor speeds-up my system nicely, and it is going to be much less noisy compared current system. But is is just so hard to think that I need to sell current gfx card and get much slower gfx to get 3D support Confused

I like to play Tux Racer sometimes Smile

Tho, probably Tux Racer, and other little 3d games run just nicely on Ati 9200, but.. Darn Razz

--JuhaK--

Trizt - Jan 10, 2005 - 07:03
Post subject:

The ati cards in question starts to be quite cheap, some of the older modles may be difficult to find thise days, so that should just increase your cost with around 50-70 euro, whihc ain't that much IMHO.

Both ATi and nVidia has been talking a little about making drivers for Linux/PPC, but there haven't been any real action in doing so. ATi has a limited staff, so I don't think they will release one, nVidia has the staff needed to support Linux/PPC, but they are those who are most secret about what they do. So if I was you and go myself a Pegasos2, I would still keep the nVidia card.
There is a small opensource graphics card project, the aim is to make a graphics card where all data is open for everyone and that the driver sources would be opensource too, but the cost for the card is difficult to predict today and the same how long it would be to make it. The card won't be as good as ATi or nVidia cards, but would be fully supported in Linux/PPC.

Good luck with your decision on your next computer.

gunne - Jan 10, 2005 - 10:22
Post subject:

Guest:

Yes, I understand !

I think you will feel the Pegasos II G4 is fast and quick and responsive to use, at least that what I feel most people say.

And you can use 3D as well.

And in addition to Linux/PPC you will also get the nice MorphOS to play around with Smile

This site runs on a Pegasos btw.

All the best !

Anonymous - Jan 13, 2005 - 15:39
Post subject:

Aw, looks like I am not getting Pegasos II, Apple came and won my hearth with Mac Mini. Thanks anyway dudes.

-JuhaK-

TCD - Sep 26, 2005 - 13:02
Post subject:

If you want mac mini, it's your choice but look: you can install MacOSX on Pegassos2 too Wink

. So you can play with MorphOS, Linux and MacOSX via emulation on the same platform Wink

kozz - Sep 26, 2005 - 16:07
Post subject:

Actually, you do not emulate MacOSX Smile

mejde - Sep 26, 2005 - 23:13
Post subject:

dholm wrote:

You won't get good 3D support on Linux/PPC because there are no commercial drivers. There is a good driver for Radeon cards (up to 9200) but it isn't even close to FireGL or nVidia.

I've read somewhere, I think it was in an Ubuntu forum some months back, that the open source drivers aren't that bad compared to fglrx. If my memory serves me correctly it was something like ~500 fps with fglrx and ~700 fps with the open source ones when running glxgears (not that good of a test, I know) on a radeon 9200SE. The 2d support in fglrx is also supposed to be slower (at least according to... some page in the Xorg wiki... oh, go find it yourself, I should be sleeping by now Sad

)

Don't know how accurate that info. is or if it's a completely different ballgame to run the open source drivers on PPC instead of x86. I'll have the opportunity to test for myself in a couple of weeks, maybe less... on x86 that is Wink

DRI will work on r300 and up in X11R6.9 and X11R7.0. Though I don't know how good the driver is.

ZzzZZZzzZzzzz

(He, just noticed that this thread was started more than nine months ago... oh well)

dholm - Sep 27, 2005 - 06:06
Post subject:

That's just vertex-throughput though. The main disadvantages are the lack of support for hardware-supported extensions in the open source driver, and of course, support for newer chipsets.

kozz - Sep 27, 2005 - 09:42
Post subject:

With the same graphics card, "ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200]" i get about 550 fps on my Pegasos while I get about 2000 fps on a x86 with fglrx in glxgears. And I tell you, playing for example neverball with the highest settings for all options it is really smooth and playable with fglrx while it is unplayable on the Pegasos with the same settings. And everthing with exactly the same card.

mejde - Sep 27, 2005 - 10:05
Post subject:

kozz: Ok. And how does the open source driver perform on the same computer you use fglrx on?

dholm: glxgears is a sucky test, I know Smile

kozz - Sep 27, 2005 - 16:35
Post subject:

I get about 640 fps in glxgears, and neverball is still unplayable. So there is really a big difference compared to fglrx. More or like the same speed as on the Pegasos.

mejde - Sep 27, 2005 - 22:22
Post subject:

2000 vs 640 ... that sounds... depressing, to say the least. Are you sure something fishy ain't going on?

Dug this up at dri-devel:

Q3 demo four fullscreen 1024x768:
r200 dri 1): 129 fps
r200 dri 2): 150 fps
fglrx: 118 fps

Q3 windowed 1024x768
r200 dri 1): 125 fps
r200 dri 2): 145 fps
fglrx 3): 108 fps

rtcw demo checkpoint fullscreen 1024x768
r200 dri 1): 85 fps
r200 dri 2): 95 fps
fglrx 4): 89 fps
fglrx 5): 78 fps

ut2k3 flyby-antalus, low/average/high
r200 dri: 15.750896 / 37.862827 / 281.284637 fps
fglrx: 30.838823 / 78.981781 / 688.162048 fps

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=dri-devel&m=110805250325559&w=2

It doesn't look like he mentions on what card this is, only that he's testing the r200 driver so it could be anything from a 8500 to a 9250 according to http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon .

Oh, and the page claiming the 2d support in fglrx is inferior is here:
http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIProprietaryDriver

gunne - Sep 28, 2005 - 14:09
Post subject:

Hi,

I think I said it many times before, but say it again then Smile

I dont know why people want to compare any open source 3D drivers, or drivers made by a single guy (or small team), with drivers made by a manufacturer of a graphicsboard.

Interesting would instead maybe be, if wanting to do comparisitions, to compare different drivers made by different teams, on different system on the Pegasos.

If you feel the only important thing is to have fastest possible 3D acceleration on a personal computer, the Pegasos is not the choice to do.

This of course doesn't mean that drivers not made by a manufacturer, is bad. Drivers works very nice and fine on the Pegasos, and I would like to say very good in MorphOS Smile

Trizt - Sep 28, 2005 - 15:27
Post subject:

I do agree with Gunne, when talking about drivers from card manufactors for Gnu/Linux (sadly x86), there is a big difference between nVidia and ATI, the first one has a 10 times bigger team dedicated for Gnu/Linux development than the second one and the driver is regarded a lot better than the driver for Radeon cards.

I guess we have to wait and see, maybe we will get nVidia drivers when Sony releases the Gnu/Linux for the PlayStation3 and it seems like Genesi will get ATI to make drivers for PPC, if both or one will do the PPC drivers, then I guess we will see more people choose PPC instead of x86, specially if we get those Dual Core and Quadra Core CPUs before AMD.

kozz - Sep 28, 2005 - 16:30
Post subject:

I do not get that high result in Q3 with the open source radeon driver, only something about 30 fps. Might be that he is using drivers from cvs-head. And do not have fglrx working any more on that machine any more. Maybe xorg 7.0 will be better Smile

kmays2000 - Jan 24, 2006 - 00:11
Post subject:

The Neverball 1.4.0 port on MorphOS is a bit different than the linux port {i.e. 1600x1200x32 setting acts up, 1280x1024 with all features enabled is playable, game is playable otherwise - yet a bit sluggish on the intro screen in >1024x768 resolutions (all features enabled).

Otherwise, most of the OpenGL demos work very well and very fast You'd have to compare with the latest v8.21.7 ATI drivers for Linux x86 to get an updated analysis versus the MorphOS 1.4.5/3D drivers.

~K