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robjoh - Jan 24, 2006 - 19:16
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile

@d.olen

About BBRV and new CPU cards etc, where did he post it, I just like to read it and I can't find the thread on MorphZone. Becasue I would like an upgrade on the CPU if I would pegasos. USB 2 is not hard to fix but the CPU upgrade would be nice.

@ironfist

As on of the Linux Gurus (or at least I belive so) how is the status of LinuxPPC, one necessary point if I would go Peg is good Linux support until MorphOS get some fundamentle apps such as web browser and a good office suit. Those things at least Linux at chalmers has. Which for me means that I have stopped using the windows machins at chalmers because Linux is working so much better.

ironfist - Jan 24, 2006 - 19:31
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile

If you are experienced with Linux (as you seem) I would recommend you
to try Genoo Linux. It is the distro I use and I have learnt so much from it.

Other distros running very well on the Pegasos II includes Debian, Ubuntu.

SUSE, Fedora Core and Yellow Dog Linux are also supported. The installers
may be a bit trickier (I haven't tried them myself).

The Gentoo Linux 2005.1 PPC Handbook covers a complete, thurough
install on the PPC and Pegasos. All Pegasos specific commands etc are
there aswell. I followed it and it just worked.

Debian installs fast and very easy. No documentation necessary.
However, I would say that I think Gentoo Linux has the by far
best documentation available. If you can't find it in any handbook
then forums.gentoo.org is your friend.

robjoh - Jan 25, 2006 - 06:24
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile

@Ironfist

Experience with Linux...hmm I don't know I just use it at Chalmers, but it seams to work good. But what I want to know how is the status about Linux PPC compared to Linux X86. I know that you like gentoo, personally I don't know if I would like to build up the whole system from scratch(sp?), so it sounds good that there is other players on the plattform. Is it possible to buy yellow dog for Peg? I know that there was plans for it but there was no build for it yet, or something like that atleast, but it isn't important yet I want to see a CPU upgrade first before I plunge into the Peg world. Other wise I will proberbly go for an Ibook 12", I really like the small form (I don't understand why a laptop should have a 17" screen).

@D. Olen
As ironfist said that post is old...

But I know that BBRV has stated somewhere about that he could have found a market for MorphOS at a later date.

@All

Sorry to bring this thread out from Topic I think it was about Ambient right? I personally think that the progress the ambient team has shown is a good sign that open source MorphOS could be very good. Of course they don't need to use GPL...

ironfist - Jan 25, 2006 - 08:43
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile

robjoh:
The most notable difference between Linux/PPC and Linux/x86 are of course
closed source drives and programs. All companies who offer closed source
Linux-stuff do it only for x86 - like Macromedia Flash, good ATi and nVidia-
drivers.. On the PPC side everything has to be reverse-engineered and hacked
into pieces before it can work.. abit.

That's the sad truth right now - hopefully it can be changed with a little help from Genesi.. Smile

lisardman - Jan 25, 2006 - 08:45
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile

lol ironfist a linuxguru Razz

gunne - Jan 25, 2006 - 09:13
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile

robjoh,

Can I ask you why you would like to purchase Yellow Dog when there is other, free to use, likewise good, if not better, Linux distributions to choose ?

If you want to compare whats included in the ubuntu-linux-install-i386.iso vs the powerpc.iso I give you the following links below:

LINK

See list whats included with the i386.iso

See list whats included with the powerpc.iso

If you would like to read a review about using Linux on the Pegasos computer, there is an review in the magazine 'Linux User & Developer, Issue 53 - 2005'.

Their conclusion was:

Pros: Excellent machine, well speeded, good price

Cons: None specific to the product, but PowerPC Linux still lags being x86 Linux in terms of popularity

Please, also note that Linux distributions very often, if not in every case, is paid for being compounded, developed, distributed, by donations - support, from companies, institutions and/or private persons.

About Ambient as open source:

I would like to say, that the choice David Gerber made in releasing Ambient as open source, was a very good choice compared to putting the Ambient project in the trashcan which I imagine was his other choice to do.

Today Ambient is maintained by a very talent team, and they are making very good progress, for being such small team, and do have alot of various ideas in mind. It is a interesting project in my opinion.

About MorphOS:

The MorphOS team, did release 4, or if it was 5, new releases/updates during the last year (2005). This releases is completely free of charge for anyone to use. Noone paid anyone anything for releasing any of them.

The releases was:

# MorphOS PowerUP - complete MorphOS 1.4.5 system for Amiga PPC, including 3D-support.

# MorphOS 3D - 3D software for MorphOS including support for Radeon graphicsboard up to 9250, which make MorphOS inline to whats available also in Linux as for 3D support.

# 2 or 3 updates of various system components in the MorphOS system.

Not bad from a small team I would like to say.

If you, or anyone else, would like to support MorphOS (or any software project related to MorphOS), its possible to do donations.

About subject - It is to read in the subject.

robjoh - Jan 25, 2006 - 10:08
Post subject:

Well I wrote a really long answer but I guess it took to long time because I was logged out and everything disapered.

What I wanted to say is this:
* I want to buy a comersial or "free" Linux distro to show my support. If I am going with PPC I think it is good to support those who is working only with PPC.

* MorphOS updates, yes they are showing progress but it seams that it is spread across the internet no common ISO has been relised with the latest updates, 1.4.7 (or is it 6) would be nice. But still a very good work done by a small team.

* About hardware I want to see CPU upgrade cards because I am planing to expand and upgrade the Peg for some time. (not as with cheap PC) when you buy a new one when the old one is dead.

* I wont buy a Peg for some time because I want to see the 4U2 also and maybe the OSW.

This post was long to...

gunne - Jan 25, 2006 - 10:21
Post subject:

robjoh,

MorphOS isos is not distributed freely over internet, and its not allowed to be spreaded freely over internet. Its available for registered users.

#1, MorphOS 1.4.x is completely free of charge

#2, Its available free of charge as download for registered users

#3, MorphOS 1.4.x is available for the Pegasos computer and for AmigaPPC

#4, MorphOS 1.4.x is included free of charge with a purchase of a Pegasos computer

Support,

The best way to support either development of Linux or MorphOS, or software related is probably using donation.

Trizt - Jan 25, 2006 - 10:33
Post subject:

@robjoh
Most Linux distros for PPC do sell on CD/DVD media version of their own distro, more information where you can buy a copy you can find on their homepages.

Some parts of MorphOS, like ambient, is activly developed, it's thise parts you may find on the net, other parts we don't know the status as it's a highly protected secret and it seems like Ralph is feeling a bit blue at the moment, so we won't know how it will be with futher kernel updates.

At the moment there aren't any defenetive information about this, the G4/1000MHz is at the moment the only one, there has been words sauid about a DualCore G4 card, but I would say it's at the moment just a rumor. There was talk about Dual CPU cards, but it seems the preformance increase was to low to make those.

4U2 is as I understand just an hand held device and not a good option for a desktop. The OSW will be a lot more interesting.

@Ironfist
We still can get flash for PPC/Sparc/MIPS/..., there is the gplflash2 project (don't confuse this with the gplflash thats in the Gentoo portage), it seems to get somewhere, last I tested it, it didn't crash, but at that point it didn't yet play everything, but thats kind of 4 months ago. So it's worth to look at.

gunne - Jan 25, 2006 - 10:58
Post subject:

Trizt,

May I ask you which kind of software piece (or anything else for that matter), not yet available or released, you do know in beforehand that it will, and also know in beforehand when it will be released ?

Senex - Jan 25, 2006 - 11:45
Post subject: Re: RE: Ambient compile

@robjoh

I can really recommend OpenSUSE - it's been easy to install and I'm not a Linux guy, too. Installation of Debian (that's the Linux distribution I tried first) is easy, too, but as a plain user I do like OpenSUSE more.

Regarding OpenSUSE, you should just take note of the special explaination site for PowerPC users.

gunne - Jan 25, 2006 - 13:35
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

Hi,

To my post above, about releases, I would like to add (did forget when writing).

The MorphOS team also during last year released 2 or 3 updates to the MorphOS SDK. One of them the TinyGL SDK.

These are also released completely free of charge, and available for registered users to download for free.

Noone paid anything for making of these releases either.

Trizt - Jan 25, 2006 - 16:09
Post subject:

gunne wrote:

May I ask you which kind of software piece (or anything else for that matter), not yet available or released, you do know in beforehand that it will, and also know in beforehand when it will be released ?

Most projects does announce information, and in some cases even an estimation when they will be released. From the MorphOS core devels you get no announcement at all, we aren't even sure they are still working on MorphOS, just take a look at evil bills homepage and you see that they, the main protectors of closed source, do announce what is happening, giving estimations when things will be released and even feature lists can be found too.

ironfist - Jan 25, 2006 - 16:18
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

Trizt: Sure, there are GPL Flash projects, but that falls under the
category reverse-engineered and hacked into pieces.. Go to
Macromedia.com and see which Linux architecture is supported
in Flash 7.

gunne - Jan 25, 2006 - 17:14
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

Trizt,

Sure, many companies do make estimations available to the public concerning planned future product releases.

But that was not what not what I was thinking about, when I asked the question.

Anyway, If I do like I ask you the question like this then instead ?

Do you believe that a small developer team like the MorphOS development team, or the Ambient team, will create such public estimations (or bigger, better ?) likely as Microsoft do, taking into consideration Microsoft being one of the biggest companies in the software and operating system industry and consisting of payed workers that work with the product of Microsoft Corporation, while the Ambient team and the MorphOS Team consist of people who work with their things in their sparetime and also release what they created for free (without charge) for the community.

Anyway,

I know also that for instance Ubuntu Linux is working for a new release, Ubuntu 6.04, Dapper Drake, planned to be released in April.

But this software is already available as pre-release (daily builds) for downloading. Also again, this is paid workers who receive paychecks for their work. Of course, I also know that not all developers in the Linux community is paid workers.

And for going back also to eventually purchase of the product again. Ubuntu Linux does send their CD release right into your letterbox without any charge for you, wherever you do live. Its just about to fill in the form on their website.

Trizt - Jan 25, 2006 - 17:55
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

@ironfist
I know, but IMHO you gave the impression you didn't have any flash at all, which was the reason to my reply.

gunne wrote:

Do you believe that a small developer team like the MorphOS development team, or the Ambient team, will create such public estimations (or bigger, better ?) likely as Microsoft do, taking into consideration Microsoft being one of the biggest companies in the software and operating system industry and consisting of payed workers that work with the product of Microsoft Corporation, while the Ambient team and the MorphOS Team consist of people who work with their things in their sparetime and also release what they created for free (without charge) for the community.

The Ambient team shows their activity with the changes in the public accesseble CVS and your compiled binary packages. Ralph hasn't shown any activity for quite long time, not a word if he is still working on the kernel or not, there is no public CVS or weekly binary to get. Do you see a difference between Ambient team and Ralph?
I'm quite sure ChaoZer will make an announcement when the time gets close to a first stable Ambient release and maybe even have a public RC before the stable is out, nothing you can expect from Ralph.

ironfist - Jan 25, 2006 - 18:31
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

I had flash before and it crashed Mozilla so easy when logging on to
say Aftonbladet and therefore I removed it.

kozz - Jan 25, 2006 - 18:54
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

@robjoh

I don't know exaclty which programs you want to use or are using at the machines at Chalmers. Me myself are currenctly using Mathematica for a course I read, and Mathematica are unforntunately not available for PowerPC, the same goes for MatLab. Well, things might have changed, but I don't think they are available.

But all other application, like OpenOffice, Firefox, Eclipse, java/c/c++, version control system like svn/cvs etc works good. Or well, Java 5.0 is currently beta for PowerPC but it works, and you always have the stable Java 1.4.

Don't think you need Flash, wmv and better 3D than the open source drivers can provide for your studies anyway, I don't. The problem are just Mathematica and MatLab, but you can run them via X-forwarding from school Smile

Trizt - Jan 25, 2006 - 18:57
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

ironfist wrote:

I had flash before and it crashed Mozilla so easy when logging on to
say Aftonbladet and therefore I removed it.

Thats for you used gplflash and not gplflash2, the first one you get from portage and the later one you get from the gplflash2 CVS.

ironfist - Jan 25, 2006 - 19:17
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

Trizt: Wasn't it gplflash2 that doesn't show any movies? Or which was that?

kozz - Jan 25, 2006 - 19:22
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

Or Gnash

Trizt - Jan 25, 2006 - 20:07
Post subject: Re: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

ironfist wrote:

Trizt: Wasn't it gplflash2 that doesn't show any movies? Or which was that?

I would have to come back on that matter, as soon as I have compiled it for my Sparc, as I can't at this moment have it installed on my Pegasos, as no much need of it on a server.

gunne - Jan 25, 2006 - 20:25
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

Trizt,

Yes, I see difference. And Im also with you in many points.

What the Ambient team have showed is really nice. Things have been formed together, they are a small, good and a very talent team. I think perhaps even David Gerber might be pleased (if he do have a look sometime), in whats happening with his former work, even that I guess he not might like every detail Smile

Here is also little more, free spoken things...

As I said before, I believe the MorphOS Team (including Ralph Schmidt (hey Ralph Smile

) have everything to gain to be more open with the community (I do not mean open source, hopefully dholm also can see the difference in this Smile

hey dholm). The community is the resource for MorphOS, they who develop for it and they who develop it, they who use it.

If they will get a financial sponsor, this would of course also change things again. But my guess here also is, that the MorphOS Team is careful, especially concidering what happened after that a former sponsor (the sponsor) stopped sponsoring. I of course also know that what happened, did happen because of reasons.

And the MorphOS Team did show during the last year, by the releases they created, that they are back on track after the hassle that were before, and during a time.

Anyway, enough of idle talk... my last post in this thread.

Have a good evening !

robjoh - Jan 26, 2006 - 09:29
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

@Kozz

Well it would be a plus to be able to use mathematica or matlab, but actuly I hadn't planed to buy the Peg before I am done at chalmers anyway. Which would be the end of this year, I don't have the money for the moment.

@Gunne

Yepp it would be nice with some updates about what is happening.

What I meant by spread over internet is that you have to download the SDK, the 3D update and before this you need an TCP stack which for a non-old Amigan might be hard.

gunne - Jan 26, 2006 - 09:59
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

robjoh,

It does happening a lot all the times.

And what's happening is software for MorphOS, and also good progress in Ambient, as I believe you have seen.

At least for me this is whats to see.

If you purchase a Pegasos from GGS-Data, you will get a good software packet included. If you prefer to go for yourself instead you need to get it together by yourself.

Later on when MorphUP have been developed further, and also becoming wider used, it will probably be easier to find things. Aminet, MorphZone, MorphOS-news, Pegasos.org and other websites is also your friend.

dholm - Jan 26, 2006 - 14:21
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile

@robjoh:
Version 4 of Mathematica was available on Linux/PPC but from version 5 and beyond they have dropped it. I e-mailed them about this and the future seems bleak at the moment.

Luckily we still have applications like R and GNU Octave.

Trizt - Jan 26, 2006 - 14:41
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

dholm wrote:

Version 4 of Mathematica was available on Linux/PPC but from version 5 and beyond they have dropped it. I e-mailed them about this and the future seems bleak at the moment.

So what great reason did they give for dropping PPC support?

dholm - Jan 26, 2006 - 14:55
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

I didn't ask for a reason. Lack of revenue?

robjoh - Jan 27, 2006 - 11:09
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

@dholm

lucky me that I have mathematica 4.2 then...

@all
Does it exist any nice open source CAD programms, I am a mechanical engineer (or I try to become one) so I like play around in such software to design things like 2 stroke engines etc which never will be produced Smile

Trizt - Jan 27, 2006 - 11:26
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

I guess VariCAD would be the best option, but you can take a look at freshmeat.net for CAD programs.

dholm - Jan 27, 2006 - 11:35
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

QCAD is the only one I know of. I doubt it's at the same level as AutoCAD but I don't really know enough about this kind of software to make that kind of judgement anyway. Smile

gunne - Jan 27, 2006 - 12:56
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

Hi,

Stepping in here again.

Have mentioned Cycas some times before. www.cycas.de

Its not open source, and they do not have a version for Linux PPC, but perhaps if requesting, they would be interested in making it.

There is also a version for Amiga, available for free. This one runs out of the box in MorphOS. To find here: http://core.de/cycas/amiga/

Is a way to test the software.

robjoh - Jan 27, 2006 - 13:01
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

@dholm

Well I hope it isn't like AutoCAD, it is totaly useless when it comes to 3D, if nothing have happend. I would like something like CATIA or ProE which is 3D from start and not just a ugly ad on...

lisardman - Jan 27, 2006 - 13:22
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

or just install inventor.. my impressions of Inventor10 is that it is much better than previous versions.. Autocad is focused on 2D and Inventor on 3D...

dholm - Jan 27, 2006 - 14:29
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

SGI OpenInventor

lisardman - Jan 27, 2006 - 19:50
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

not the same as http://www.autodesk.com/inventor

robjoh - Jan 28, 2006 - 09:28
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

well it seems that there is some alternativs, but as I don't have a peg yet you don't need to run around trying to find more programms Smile

but thanks for the information

Trizt - Jan 28, 2006 - 11:03
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

If you are looking for something special, freshmeat.net is the best place to search for it, before you try to find among the packages that your selected distro does provide, as you then will know what you are looking for (having a name for a possible package, ebuild).

robjoh - Jan 29, 2006 - 12:12
Post subject: RE: Questions about Linux on Pegasos

@Trizt
ok thanks for the info...