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robjoh
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile  PostPosted: Jan 24, 2006 - 19:16
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@d.olen

About BBRV and new CPU cards etc, where did he post it, I just like to read it and I can't find the thread on MorphZone. Becasue I would like an upgrade on the CPU if I would pegasos. USB 2 is not hard to fix but the CPU upgrade would be nice.

@ironfist

As on of the Linux Gurus (or at least I belive so) how is the status of LinuxPPC, one necessary point if I would go Peg is good Linux support until MorphOS get some fundamentle apps such as web browser and a good office suit. Those things at least Linux at chalmers has. Which for me means that I have stopped using the windows machins at chalmers because Linux is working so much better.
 
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ironfist
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile  PostPosted: Jan 24, 2006 - 19:31
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If you are experienced with Linux (as you seem) I would recommend you
to try Genoo Linux. It is the distro I use and I have learnt so much from it.

Other distros running very well on the Pegasos II includes Debian, Ubuntu.

SUSE, Fedora Core and Yellow Dog Linux are also supported. The installers
may be a bit trickier (I haven't tried them myself).

The Gentoo Linux 2005.1 PPC Handbook covers a complete, thurough
install on the PPC and Pegasos. All Pegasos specific commands etc are
there aswell. I followed it and it just worked.

Debian installs fast and very easy. No documentation necessary.
However, I would say that I think Gentoo Linux has the by far
best documentation available. If you can't find it in any handbook
then forums.gentoo.org is your friend.
 
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robjoh
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile  PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 06:24
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@Ironfist

Experience with Linux...hmm I don't know I just use it at Chalmers, but it seams to work good. But what I want to know how is the status about Linux PPC compared to Linux X86. I know that you like gentoo, personally I don't know if I would like to build up the whole system from scratch(sp?), so it sounds good that there is other players on the plattform. Is it possible to buy yellow dog for Peg? I know that there was plans for it but there was no build for it yet, or something like that atleast, but it isn't important yet I want to see a CPU upgrade first before I plunge into the Peg world. Other wise I will proberbly go for an Ibook 12", I really like the small form (I don't understand why a laptop should have a 17" screen).

@D. Olen
As ironfist said that post is old...

But I know that BBRV has stated somewhere about that he could have found a market for MorphOS at a later date.

@All

Sorry to bring this thread out from Topic I think it was about Ambient right? I personally think that the progress the ambient team has shown is a good sign that open source MorphOS could be very good. Of course they don't need to use GPL...
 
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ironfist
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile  PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 08:43
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robjoh:
The most notable difference between Linux/PPC and Linux/x86 are of course
closed source drives and programs. All companies who offer closed source
Linux-stuff do it only for x86 - like Macromedia Flash, good ATi and nVidia-
drivers.. On the PPC side everything has to be reverse-engineered and hacked
into pieces before it can work.. abit.

That's the sad truth right now - hopefully it can be changed with a little help from Genesi.. Smile
 
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lisardman
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile  PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 08:45
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lol ironfist a linuxguru Razz

heya

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gunne
Post subject: RE: Ambient compile  PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 09:13
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robjoh,

Can I ask you why you would like to purchase Yellow Dog when there is other, free to use, likewise good, if not better, Linux distributions to choose ?

If you want to compare whats included in the ubuntu-linux-install-i386.iso vs the powerpc.iso I give you the following links below:

LINK

See list whats included with the i386.iso

See list whats included with the powerpc.iso

If you would like to read a review about using Linux on the Pegasos computer, there is an review in the magazine 'Linux User & Developer, Issue 53 - 2005'.

Their conclusion was:

Pros: Excellent machine, well speeded, good price

Cons: None specific to the product, but PowerPC Linux still lags being x86 Linux in terms of popularity

Please, also note that Linux distributions very often, if not in every case, is paid for being compounded, developed, distributed, by donations - support, from companies, institutions and/or private persons.

About Ambient as open source:

I would like to say, that the choice David Gerber made in releasing Ambient as open source, was a very good choice compared to putting the Ambient project in the trashcan which I imagine was his other choice to do.

Today Ambient is maintained by a very talent team, and they are making very good progress, for being such small team, and do have alot of various ideas in mind. It is a interesting project in my opinion.

About MorphOS:

The MorphOS team, did release 4, or if it was 5, new releases/updates during the last year (2005). This releases is completely free of charge for anyone to use. Noone paid anyone anything for releasing any of them.

The releases was:

# MorphOS PowerUP - complete MorphOS 1.4.5 system for Amiga PPC, including 3D-support.

# MorphOS 3D - 3D software for MorphOS including support for Radeon graphicsboard up to 9250, which make MorphOS inline to whats available also in Linux as for 3D support.

# 2 or 3 updates of various system components in the MorphOS system.

Not bad from a small team I would like to say.

If you, or anyone else, would like to support MorphOS (or any software project related to MorphOS), its possible to do donations.

About subject - It is to read in the subject.

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robjoh
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 10:08
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Well I wrote a really long answer but I guess it took to long time because I was logged out and everything disapered.

What I wanted to say is this:
* I want to buy a comersial or "free" Linux distro to show my support. If I am going with PPC I think it is good to support those who is working only with PPC.

* MorphOS updates, yes they are showing progress but it seams that it is spread across the internet no common ISO has been relised with the latest updates, 1.4.7 (or is it 6) would be nice. But still a very good work done by a small team.

* About hardware I want to see CPU upgrade cards because I am planing to expand and upgrade the Peg for some time. (not as with cheap PC) when you buy a new one when the old one is dead.

* I wont buy a Peg for some time because I want to see the 4U2 also and maybe the OSW.

This post was long to...
 
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gunne
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 10:21
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robjoh,

MorphOS isos is not distributed freely over internet, and its not allowed to be spreaded freely over internet. Its available for registered users.

#1, MorphOS 1.4.x is completely free of charge

#2, Its available free of charge as download for registered users

#3, MorphOS 1.4.x is available for the Pegasos computer and for AmigaPPC

#4, MorphOS 1.4.x is included free of charge with a purchase of a Pegasos computer

Support,

The best way to support either development of Linux or MorphOS, or software related is probably using donation.

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Trizt
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 10:33
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@robjoh
Most Linux distros for PPC do sell on CD/DVD media version of their own distro, more information where you can buy a copy you can find on their homepages.

Some parts of MorphOS, like ambient, is activly developed, it's thise parts you may find on the net, other parts we don't know the status as it's a highly protected secret and it seems like Ralph is feeling a bit blue at the moment, so we won't know how it will be with futher kernel updates.

At the moment there aren't any defenetive information about this, the G4/1000MHz is at the moment the only one, there has been words sauid about a DualCore G4 card, but I would say it's at the moment just a rumor. There was talk about Dual CPU cards, but it seems the preformance increase was to low to make those.

4U2 is as I understand just an hand held device and not a good option for a desktop. The OSW will be a lot more interesting.

@Ironfist
We still can get flash for PPC/Sparc/MIPS/..., there is the gplflash2 project (don't confuse this with the gplflash thats in the Gentoo portage), it seems to get somewhere, last I tested it, it didn't crash, but at that point it didn't yet play everything, but thats kind of 4 months ago. So it's worth to look at.

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gunne
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 10:58
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Trizt,

May I ask you which kind of software piece (or anything else for that matter), not yet available or released, you do know in beforehand that it will, and also know in beforehand when it will be released ?

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Senex
Post subject: Re: RE: Ambient compile  PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 11:45
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@robjoh

I can really recommend OpenSUSE - it's been easy to install and I'm not a Linux guy, too. Installation of Debian (that's the Linux distribution I tried first) is easy, too, but as a plain user I do like OpenSUSE more.

Regarding OpenSUSE, you should just take note of the special explaination site for PowerPC users.
 
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gunne
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile  PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 13:35
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Hi,

To my post above, about releases, I would like to add (did forget when writing).

The MorphOS team also during last year released 2 or 3 updates to the MorphOS SDK. One of them the TinyGL SDK.

These are also released completely free of charge, and available for registered users to download for free.

Noone paid anything for making of these releases either.

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Trizt
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 16:09
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gunne wrote:
May I ask you which kind of software piece (or anything else for that matter), not yet available or released, you do know in beforehand that it will, and also know in beforehand when it will be released ?


Most projects does announce information, and in some cases even an estimation when they will be released. From the MorphOS core devels you get no announcement at all, we aren't even sure they are still working on MorphOS, just take a look at evil bills homepage and you see that they, the main protectors of closed source, do announce what is happening, giving estimations when things will be released and even feature lists can be found too.

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ironfist
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile  PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 16:18
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Trizt: Sure, there are GPL Flash projects, but that falls under the
category reverse-engineered and hacked into pieces.. Go to
Macromedia.com and see which Linux architecture is supported
in Flash 7.
 
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gunne
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Ambient compile  PostPosted: Jan 25, 2006 - 17:14
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Trizt,

Sure, many companies do make estimations available to the public concerning planned future product releases.

But that was not what not what I was thinking about, when I asked the question.

Anyway, If I do like I ask you the question like this then instead ?

Do you believe that a small developer team like the MorphOS development team, or the Ambient team, will create such public estimations (or bigger, better ?) likely as Microsoft do, taking into consideration Microsoft being one of the biggest companies in the software and operating system industry and consisting of payed workers that work with the product of Microsoft Corporation, while the Ambient team and the MorphOS Team consist of people who work with their things in their sparetime and also release what they created for free (without charge) for the community.

Anyway,

I know also that for instance Ubuntu Linux is working for a new release, Ubuntu 6.04, Dapper Drake, planned to be released in April.

But this software is already available as pre-release (daily builds) for downloading. Also again, this is paid workers who receive paychecks for their work. Of course, I also know that not all developers in the Linux community is paid workers.

And for going back also to eventually purchase of the product again. Ubuntu Linux does send their CD release right into your letterbox without any charge for you, wherever you do live. Its just about to fill in the form on their website.

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